Kon-Tiki FAQ
There are some questions in the Team Information Pack which are not repeated here
Costs
1. How can I pay the team application fee?
2. How much do youth and adults staying in cabins pay?
Team
Materials
5. What are the main types of construction materials that we are expected to use?
6. What items can the event crew help obtain?
7. Where can we get long pioneering poles?
General Rope Questions
9. How do we tie the various parts?
Type of Ropes
13. What types of ropes should I use on the various jobs?
14. Can a team use sisal instead of
15. Ruling on
16. If you want further information about manila vs sisal rope, see below.
Technical Information on
Construction
17. When can we start construction?
18. Protecting the scouts hands - Riggers Gloves
19. Non-rigid frame for the raft – building the raft in quarters
Anchors
20. What sort of anchors should we use?
21. What other anchor fittings are needed?
22. Are other types of anchors ok?
23. Can we still sleep on the raft if we don’t have a suitable anchor?
Cabin
24. Does the cabin need a frame?
25. Can we use tek screws in the cabin?
Food/ cooking
26. What do the raft teams eat?
27. What cooking equipment does the raft team need?
28. What is an egg poaching cup or ring?
Miscellaneous
29. Are non-scouting support crew members covered by some form of insurance if anything happens to them at this activity?
30. Where is the camp site and where should our team camp within the site
Costs
1. How can I pay the team application fee?
Answer 1:
The preferred method is direct deposit using the scout event account and state your Group name and KonTiki as the reference:
BSB 105 011
Account: 104662940
Otherwise, you may send a cheque to:
2. How much do youth and adults staying in cabins, camper trailers or vans pay?
Answer 2:
Youth staying in cabins should pay an event fee of $10 and adults $5. The fee covers things like kayak and marquee hire as well as badge. This fee doesn't include costs of using/ bringing a cabin, camp trailer or camper-van and these fees need to be settled with the caravan park.
If there are siblings staying at the cabin who aren't participating, they don't need to pay the event fee (but they don't get a badge either). They can help the team build but can't participate in the fringe activities unless they pay the $10.
Team
3. Our Scout group may be a one scout short so I was wondering if we were able to have three Venturers and three scouts participate on the raft team.
Answer 3:
The events committee agreed that it would be better to have another scout so you have 4 scouts and 2 venturers the same as other teams. That way the other teams can’t complain that it isn’t fair competing against a team with more Venturers.
I suggest you try for another scout of a suitable age from a nearby group, which has the advantage that you will get more resources involved (since the support team will probably be larger than the raft team) and also that more scouts get to meet the venturers (remember that’s one of the key objectives). If that doesn’t work, get back to us and we will consider permitting a scout under the age of 13.5 to join in.
4. Is it possible for a small troop to come along and watch and join in fringe events on the Kon-Tiki weekend or help in any way?
Answer 4:
Last year, we permitted a team to do this and recommended they join another team from their region. They did and the combined team did very well.
The cost will be the same as for the support teams
Youth = $25
Leaders & adults = $20
If you only stay 1 night, the cost is the same because the campground has a minimum charge.
The fringe activities only start when the raft teams board approx. 10am on Saturday, so it will probably be good for you to help another team or the event itself. Some leaders or parents will be required to help as an activity leaders (and so are adults from the raft teams).
The team I have permitted to attend the fringe is a small country one, so it is ok if they come on the Friday night.
For future teams, we would prefer not to have large numbers wandering around the site getting in the way of teams working. it is probably better if you arrange activities off-site for the Saturday until 2pm or arrive at lunch time and set up camp. There is a good bike ride around
Materials
5. What are the main types of construction materials that we are expected to use?
Answer 5:
Pioneering Poles – you need longer lengths than usual, eg 4m for the width and 6m or 7m for the length
Ropes – 10 mm manila for the frame and barrels. Telstra rope is ok for the cabin and deck.
Barrels
Deck – most teams used 15mm thick plywood sheets which are 1200mm wide.
Cabin Walls & roof – most teams used 3-ply sheets for the cabin walls and roof
6. What items can event crew help obtain?
Answer 6:
The event crew will supply:
A 2 person Canadian canoe for use as a tender – we have 10
Barrels – we have a source of 200 litre barrels but you will need to transport them, so please ask if you need to use them
7. Where can we get long pioneering poles?
Answer 7:
ForestrySA prunes the young pine trees each year and you can work with them to obtain 4m to 7m pioneering poles.
At Kuitpo forest, the ranger has agreed to help scout groups but any person using a chainsaw must be qualified.
Answer 8:
No.
An aluminium irrigation pipe is unlikely to be strong enough to stand up to the load, especially over a 6m length.
It may be ok for a shorter length.
General Rope Questions
9. How do we tie the various parts?
Answer 9:
This is probably best answered with a table:
|
Component |
Method |
|
Frame lashing |
Square lashing using levers to tighten frequently, especially for the frapping turns. It helps to stand barrels under the corners of the main lengths, so you can work at waist height. |
|
Barrels to frame |
A truckies’ hitch uses a 2:1 ratio and gets the barrels very tight. It helps to use a small block of wood to keep the barrel off the rope around the frame. This allows the rope to slide around easily when tightening. |
|
Decking to frame |
Use a blanket stitch to tie the deck to the frame. This allows you to tighten the rope better than a simple stitch. It helps to have one person underneath to pass the rope back up. |
|
Cabin walls |
Use a blanket stitch to tie the walls and ceiling together. |
|
Fixing cabin to deck |
Use a blanket stitch. One team tied timber to the deck to form a frame and then fixed the cabin to it. They still tied it to the deck but it was easy to get the position right. |
10. Whipping to finish the ropes
Answer 10:
Please make sure the scouts whip lots of ropes but you don't need to whip them all. You can finish many ropes by putting tape around the end. This has the advantage that there are lots of whipping left for scouts the following years.
Answer 11:
One of the teams said they have 500m of rope and ran out (2 reels of 250m each). When teaching lashings, I usually recommend 3 times around - don't bother with a fourth.
The structural raft frame should be strong (10mm manila) but the other uses don't need quite the same strength. The barrels are unlikely to be under the same strain since the weight of the raft will keep them in place, ie they can be a cheaper rope. Similarly, the cabin and decking can be fixed with cheaper rope - in fact, I won't disqualify teams if the cabin is held together with nylon rope (eg Telstra).
Tightening ropes with a lever - I heard on the weekend that scouts have been breaking rope with the lever! The levers are very effective but don't put so much tension on the rope that it is in risk of breaking. They need to be firm but not close to breaking point - remember they will tighten further if they get wet.
Answer 12:
It will be difficult untying the ropes after the event, especially when they are wet. I would hate to see people simply cutting them off as they are too expensive and it would give a bad message to the scouts.
I suggest you use a tent peg or wooden spikes, like the mariner's belaying spikes. You can work the peg or spike between the ropes and use leverage to undo . When I was a scout, I had a pocket knife with a long thick spike (8 to 10cm and almost 1cm thick), this would be ideal but I doubt there are many of these knives around now.
Types of Ropes
13. What types of ropes should I use on the various jobs?
Answer 13:
This is best summarised in a table:
|
Task |
Type |
Note |
|
Raft frame |
Manila, 10mm |
Need structural strength, non-stretch rope which swells when wet. |
|
Fixing barrels to frame |
Manila, 10mm |
Need structural strength, non-stretch rope which swells when wet. |
|
Tying deck to frame |
Any, eg Telstra |
Sisal or 8mm manilla should be ok for this |
|
Tying cabin walls |
Any, eg Telstra |
Sisal or 8mm manilla should be ok for this |
14. Can a team use sisal instead of Manila rope since the cost is half as much
Answer 14:
There was a lot of discussion about manila vs sisal rope in 2012.
15. Ruling on
Answer 15:
Your team needs to use manila rope. We recommend 10mm thickness but you may use 8mm at your own risk – knowing that scouts will be able to break it when tightening with a lever.
16. If you want further information about manila vs sisal rope, see below.
Answer 16:
I discussed this with Barry Clark who has provided technical advice on materials. He recommends that hemp or
Sorry that it is more expensive but it’s better to be safe than sorry. As a minor benefit, hemp is softer on the hands than sisal so you will have less skin complaints afterwards.
Advice from
We do not allow sisal to be used on the raft frame or barrels at all as we feel that it is not strong enough, and as you said in your information booklet manila rope swells and binds tighter when wet while sisal does not.
I have not stipulated the diameter of the manila rope and teams either use 10mm 3 strand or 8mm 3 strand manila rope. I would recommend 10mm as I feel the 8mm breaking point is just slightly too low. Many teams do use 8mm, but ropes break often while using the frapping mallets to tighten knots. We had one team that couldn’t afford to get new manila rope when we introduced the rule and let them use nylon rope with a caveat that their seaworthiness would be judged at the competition. They lost the points for not using manila, but were allowed on the water after we had tested their lashings at the competition. We also kept a close eye on their lashings to make sure they did not come undone during the 24 hours they were on the water. They have now bought new 10mm manila rope.
Our rules say that they MUST use manila rope to tie the raft frame together and to tie the barrels to the frame (construction steps 1 and 2). Thereafter they can use whatever rope they wish. Many use other types of rope to tie the floorboards together and to the frame and to tie their hut together and to the raft. Many use sisal to tie the 4 sides of their hut together and manila or nylon to tie the hut to the frame/floorboards. Our reasoning behind specifying manila for the frame and barrels is that these are the 2 most important aspects of the raft and failures in either of these two aspects means the raft will sink. As important as the floorboards and hut are, failures in either of these two aspects will not cause the raft to sink.
To my knowledge we have never had a catastrophic failure of a raft while on the water, and we get some strong winds during the competition. We have had quite a few rafts come loose from their moorings over the years and land up on the other side of the vlei (lake) in strong winds – these we have to pull back using the rescue boat. Since those days we have increased the size of the anchor to 10kg and in very strong winds we get the rafts to lash themselves onto one of 2 large hawser lines that we lay out from the shore. We used to have the competition after the Easter school holidays, but moved it to March to try and avoid the nasty weather. We have had some pretty bad weather over the kon-tiki weekends, but still hold the competition regardless.
Kind regards,
Robbie Owen
Chief Judge,
Technical Information on Manila vs Sisal Rope
One of the questions about manila vs sisal rope last year also asked about 8mm vs 10mm.
I checked http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/manila-rope-strength-d_1512.html and http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sisal-rope-strength-d_1517.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sisal-rope-strength-d_1517.html
The strength ratings are:
|
Type |
Diameter |
Strength (kN) |
cf 10mm |
|
|
10mm |
5.40 |
100% |
|
|
8mm |
4.00 |
74% |
|
Sisal |
10mm |
3.85 |
71% |
|
Sisal |
8mm |
2.85 |
53% |
|
Sisal |
11mm |
4.98 |
92% |
|
Sisal |
12mm |
7.56 |
140% |
You will notice that a similar thickness of sisal is 71% the strength of the
I have received the following advice about rope from an engineer familiar with scout lashings:
“I think the greatest issue will be when the teams get the rope wet. Lashing dry (with levers) will be one thing and most scouts should be able tell if a rope has broken when they tie it. However, once the rope gets wet it will shrink and tighten up the rope. If the lashing is really tight there is potential for the rope to break. The higher breaking strength of manila rope may be the margin between the raft coming apart and staying together (it will also take some time for the rope to shrink completely so the critical time is not immediately when the raft goes into the water but some hours later).
“For the sake of fairness I think the ruling should that all teams should use manila rope, based on the experience that scouts in
I agree, it is fair to say the same for everyone.
Construction
17. When can we start construction?
Answer 17:
You can start building at 7am on Friday morning, 26 April 2013.
Most teams will travel to Barmera in the afternoon or evening of Thursday and camp, Please make sure that some youth members are building when you start construction, ie adults can help but it is a youth construction event.
18. Protecting the scouts hands - Riggers Gloves
Answer 18:
One of the teams mentioned that they are using "riggers gloves" to protect their hands from the coarse ropes. These are fairly thin and soft, something like chamois. This group has a parent who works as a linesman and they brought lots of second hand (no pun intended) gloves from work.
My own group has lots of pairs of plasticised cloth gloves from a few years of Clean Up Australia Day activities, so these would probably work as would gardening gloves.
19. Non-rigid frame for the raft - building the raft in quarters
Answer 19:
Our immediate response was “I am all in support of ingenious solutions, but the raft must be judged seaworthy!“
At the end of the day the craft has to be SEAWORTHY, remember there will be winds, and possible choppy conditions, these movements even though slight can destroy all your good work. remember you will be using rope to make your craft rigid and SEAWORTHY.
I don't see a problem using 3x2 as a base frame, or even the whole structure. I love the idea of thinking outside the square so to speak , but do make certain that what ever you decide in your construction that the safety of you, and possibly 6 people aboard this vessel is of paramount importance. I cannot stress enough this point.
The result of this question was a discussion with Barry Clark and practical tests of models in a wave pool. The team felt the raft built in quarters worked better over a short period, since it has a much smaller "sway" motion.
Barry agreed that this is not prohibited in the rules, so my answer is “go for it.” Remember that the judges will scrutinise this raft carefully for seaworthiness.
One question, how will the cabin be built to take the separate movements?
For other teams considering an innovative raft design, please contact us via Kontiki@sa.scouts.com.au
Anchors
20. What sort of anchors should we use?
Answer 20:
In brief, each raft needs two 10kg Danforth anchors with 3 to 4m of chain (links of 6mm diameter) plus rope.
After some investigation, these anchors are suitable for boats of approx. 1.5 to 2 tonnes, so very few Sea Scout Groups would have one. A new Danforth anchor could cost approx. $200 plus shipping (via the internet), which is too expensive for most teams.
I discussed these anchors with Michael Green, a mechanical engineer who was ABC Cub Scouts, and he recommended that simply adding a heavy weight to a small anchor would not give enough gripping area.
It seems that you have two choices:
Make the anchors, or
Borrow them from a friend with a large boat (1.5 tonnes)
Michael said that making these anchors using the design is a reasonable task if a group has someone with a good level of welding skill and approx. $35 of materials. He noted that the design is only 8kg, although the chain will bring it up to 10kg. Michael has modified the design to use more readily available sizes and bring it up to 10kg.
In 2012, one team arranged a TAFE lecturer to make two anchors as a welding project for a team of students.
21. What other anchor fittings are needed?
Answer 21:
You will need:
3-4m chain (8-10mm diameter)
Rope – the chain plus rope must be at least 3 times as long as the water depth (2m to 3m depth)
I have found a price of $9.25 plus GST per metre for the chain from A Noble & Son Ltd on
You will also need a shackle and approx. 25m rope for each anchor – artificial fibres are ok for the anchor rope.
For further information, see the anchor diagram.
22. Are other types of anchors ok?
Answer 22:
Yes, but only if you have two which are rated for 1.5 to 2 tonnes.
A claw type anchor is NOT acceptable.
A 5kg danforth is NOT big enough. You need 2 anchors and both 8 to 10kg.
There are a few new anchor designs which would be suitable if one was offered as a loan. I suggest you contact the event team if you have a question. Remember, you need two anchors each rated for 1.5 to 2 tonnes.
23. Can we still sleep on the raft if we don't have a suitable anchor?
Answer 23:
Yes, but you will probably be moored to the bank by a long rope or possibly be permitted to moor closer to the shore than other rafts depending on the weather forecast.
Cabin
24. Does the cabin need a frame?
Answer 24:
No, but remember it needs to stand up to a wind or choppy waves.
Many teams use the frame of the cabin to hold up the mast, so it may make building your mast harder.
25. Can we use tek screws in the cabin?
Answer 25:
Sorry no.
This is mainly because we are using scout methods to replicate the rafts possibly used by the Polynesians when they rafted from
I suggest your team lashes a box frame, then drill holes in some plywood and tie it to the frame. I think that would be better than trek screws, especially if it gets windy.
Food/ cooking
26. What do the raft teams eat?
Answer 26:
The ingredients documented in the “Team Supply List” will cover basic meals for the raft team from Saturday lunch to breakfast on Sunday. They should come off the raft in time for lunch with the fringe group but I suggest you give them something extra for supper and morning tea.
If the list doesn’t mention ingredients for the pudding, then we are supplying them centrally – we are supplying items for a couple of other activities too.
Remember that some dishes to be supplied for judging will need to be coloured but the youth don’t need to eat coloured food.
27. What cooking equipment does the raft team need?
Answer 27:
We haven’t planned the meals in full yet, but last year teams needed the following equipment to cook the meals:
· 3 gas burners
· Frying pan
· 2 litre pot
· Utensils
28. What is an egg poaching cup or ring?
Answer 28:
Try http://www.wikihow.com/Poach-an-Egg
You can also search on the internet for other ideas
Miscellaneous
29. Are non-scouting support crew members covered by some form of insurance if anything happens to them at this activity?
There will be heavy drums, rafts, shifting sheets of board, maneuvring rafts into water, so there is a risk of sprains, strains, breaks, torn ligaments etc. What happens if a major breadwinner loses time off work because of an accident?
Yes, adults and youth helping with the event are covered by the Scouts SA insurance policy, subject to some limits.
Remember that these people will need to provide an A4 when they come and the team leader will need to provide a copy to administration on registration at the event for storage with the First Aid post.
Carolyn, yes you are correct to suggest that helpers are covered under the Association’s Personal Accident policy provided it is an approved Scouting activity such as Kontiki and ‘Come and Try’. The Association’s PA policy is not designed to pay medical bills and for legal reasons our insurers cannot cover any ‘gap’ left from Medicare claims. However certain non Medicare and private health cover expenses are covered. The policy also provides cover for loss of wages due to an accident – subject to proof of earnings (max- $700 per week- 52 weeks), out of pocket travelling or personal expenses for attending hospital, bed care and broken bones benefit.
Angela Marino
Branch Administration Manager
Scouts Australia (SA Branch)
30. Where is the camp site and where should our team camp within the site
Answer 30:
The address is:
Discovery Holiday Parks
www.discoveryholidayparks.com.au
1800 034 828
I will provide a site layout nearer to the event.
Remember you can zoom out a bit to see how to reach the site- the entrance is on a side road to the left just before you enter Barmera.
You will collect the barrels from Berri Estate Wines on Saturday, this is marked on the map but you will need to zoom out a long way as it is on